Election ’08: OMG The Gays Are Trying To Get Gangsta With It

Like when Hillary lost the nomination and Black America got a taste of how their party mates really felt about them (thank you Harriet Christian and P.U.M.A.), the white gays are following suit after not being able to defeat Proposition 8.

To date, I have received several phone calls from Blacks, both gay and straight, who were caught up in Westwood around the time of that march. From being called “niggers” to being accosted in their cars and told that it was because of “you people gays don’t have equal rights and you better watch your back,” these gays have lost their damn minds.

But I know one thing, they won’t bring that shit south of the 10 freeway.

All I can say is that I wish that had been me in Westwood some gay called a “nigger.” I keep bail money and a lawyer on retainer for exactly these types of occasions.

If gays want to blame someone for Proposition 8, they can start with their leaders—also known as the gay mafia, whose egos, white superiority complex, and misunderstanding of Black people’s priorities for this election season guaranteed certain outcomes.

Keep it up and maybe the Black people will come to West Hollywood and hold a protest of their own—I’d be happy to lead it.

[poll id=”43″]

The Court of Public Opinion

  • Eric

    Shira,

    Well, I wouldn’t necessarily say that I’m condeming gay white racism( maybe it appears that way), but I actually applaud what gay whites are doing. Simply because I want the truth to be out there, I want the truth exposed for what it is. This idea of some gay utopia where blacks are welcomed with open arms is misleading and just untrue. As we have witnessed this past week. So no condeming here.

    But I do think your comments would be better served if directed toward those who took the words of 230 black people(a few) who participated in an exit poll on November 4, 2008, and used their words to condem the entire black race(black gays included). That’s the root,that is how this whole thing began. I’m sure you’re a nice person and I appreciate your attempt to reason with me. But as a mentioned in another post, I’m a lost cause, nothing will change my views on this matter.

  • shira

    Eric,

    I assure you, when I hear/see people talking about the exit polls and the black vote (though it doesn’t happen as often as you think, it does happen), I am down their throats about being hypocrites, being racist and non-inclusive long before Prop 8, too easily jumping to conclusions, ignoring the real cause of 8’s passage, and the No on 8 campaign’s failure to reach out to the black community, particularly given the fact that soooo many in the queer community *are* people of color – including SOOO many of our predecessors in this movement (just who do they think rioted at Stonewall? Upper-middle-class white men??). And I’m quick to point out that this divisiveness only further serves the purposes of the Yes on 8 campaign people, who, I might add, are not so fond of LGBT people (regardless of ethnicity or race) OR black people (regardless of sexual orientation) – or Jewish people, or Latino people, or pretty much anybody who doesn’t fit their perfect ideal of “White Christian American.” (Hell, the major Yes on 8 forces don’t even like each other.)

    But here on *this* site, what I see is you making judgments about a group of people based on the words and deeds of a few – which seems quite similar to white gay men saying, “Black people hate us openly now, so let’s openly hate them too.” You’re saying the exact same thing, only about white gay people (and incidentally, you’re also blaming women for comments and insults that have come mostly from men). It seems like you are almost *enjoying* this, because it gives you an excuse to be openly racist yourself. So here, in this setting, it is you that I criticize.

    Incidentally… I realize the No on 8 people fucked up by not reaching out to the black community… but what would that have looked like, given the resources and (lack of) knowledge they had? What would have been a good way of reaching out without being ridiculous and patronizing? I mean, how would your friends and family have felt if a couple of clueless white dudes showed up at your church and were like, “Okay, we’re here to educate you now”? Do you think that would have been well-received? Somehow I doubt it.

    I kind of feel like a lot of the “new-school” young, progressive folks (of all colors), who would have really understood how to reach out and build coalitions, were putting their time and energy toward the Obama campaign because they just did not believe that Prop 8 could possibly pass. There was a lot of complacency regarding Prop 8, whereas the fight for Obama’s victory was a real fight that clearly required real manpower. And many of the people who were left to run the No on 8 campaign just *didn’t get it* – I heard of them telling phone bankers to hang up if people had an accent, I heard of a black couple being turned away from a volunteer site, etc. They just *didn’t get it*, and they didn’t realize how clueless they were. That’s just my impression. I mean, don’t get me wrong – Obama’s win was *far* more important than Prop 8, for its significance but also because dear god, we needed a real president after 8 years of bullshit. So yeah – I’m not criticizing this allocation of effort, but I do think that might be one reason why the coalition-building around Prop 8 was an epic fail.

    But that was the failure of the campaign. If you look out at those protests now, you can see how freakin’ diverse the LGBT community is, and you can see that next time around, we aren’t going to sit back and let some small group of campaign leaders define the discourse. But we need *everybody* involved, because we’re fighting for *all* of the community, not just some little segment of a little segment who hang out in Weho and post half-naked pictures on Facebook. You know?

  • Eric

    Shira,

    Maybe I deserve your criticism, who knows? I fully expected that some would disagree with me anyway. I wouldn’t say that I’ve completely enjoyed what has occurred over the past few weeks, I wouldn’t say that I’m a racist or hateful either, but I do have a motive, I do have an agenda. What I desire to see is an increased visibility of gays of color(black gays specifically) in their respective communities.

    I want them to stand up and be counted. I want them to stop feeling ashamed of who they are, I want them to stop believing that they have to hide who they are or pretend to be something other than who they are in order to gain acceptance. I want out gays of color to stop condoning this DL phenomena. It’s not cool, it’s not sexy, he’s not “trade“, he isn’t any more of a man that you are. I do not feel that this can be achieved if we continue to dellude ourselves by believing that gay white men care about anything other than gay white men. The “gay rights movement” is their movement and they have made that clear time and time again.

    I grew up in a predominately white upper middleclass neighborhood. I was probably what you’d call “whitewashed”(some say I still am) but I have always had a strong sense of who I was as a black man.

    My neighbor had an openly gay son who I befriended early on in life, not only did my high school have a very active gay student union, but we had an openly gay teacher who served as the advisor. I grew up in an environment where openly gay people were not an oddity, they were visible, which made it that much easier for me to come out and be open about who I was. I do wonder how things may have been different had I grown up in an environment where gay people were much less visible within the community.

    Gay organizations of color need to make increased visibility within communities of color their primary objective. We need to build coalitions with community organizations, community activist and yes even the church. But we don’t need to do this by waving some banner for “gay rights.” The gay rights movement is incredibly myopic, you’re going to go into a community of color and start talking about gay rights when many of those folks feel they don’t have all their rights themselves? Gay organizations of color need step away from this “gay rights movement“, let the white men have that.

    What we need to pursue is a Human Rights Movement which includes gay rights, as well equal pay for women(big issue in communities of color), speaking out against police brutality, gang violence and injustice and so on. Just human rights in general. If you want to connect with the community, you need to speak to issues that directly affect the community. Pretending that the “gay white boys club” cares about anything other than “marriage“ and themselves, and that we gay blacks have a place at their table is nothing short of delusional . And these delusions will do nothing but prevent further progress in communities of color.

    As far as women, I never intended to disparage them. I know that lesbians have historically felt the burn of exclusion themselves.

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  • shira

    Eric,

    I can understand where you’re coming from. For what it’s worth, I view all queer people as “family,” as in, “are you family?” regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, etc. We all have a common thread connecting us, even if we can’t see it sometimes. (Although I have to confess that I’m a little bit intolerant toward Log Cabin Republicans. I just don’t know what to do with them. But that’s my own issue. I’m dealing with it.)

    The way I see it, if there’s some sort of perfect ideal target of equality, we’re all moving toward it from different positions in life depending on our own circumstances (race, ethnicity, gender, disability, socio-economic status, family, etc), and the closer you are to obtaining that goal, the less likely it is that you will turn around to see how many people are behind you in “line” for equality.

    Some people at the front of the line don’t particularly *care* that there are people behind them – and some people are truly so clueless that it hasn’t occurred to them to *look*. And of course some people are further from equality than it might seem when you just look at them and make assumptions.

    It seems like the people who are being racist assholes are going to be the people who just don’t care, and are fighting for this right on principle because it’s the last barrier to their own full equality – probably affluent, spoiled youngish white men who haven’t really had to work their asses off for what they have, who are too young to remember the initial outbreak and horror of the AIDS epidemic and therefore don’t know that kind of loss or care that it’s still a major problem, and who are too young to remember what being gay in America once meant for people, regardless of race or ethnicity or SES.

    But that doesn’t describe every white gay man any more than it describes every white man in general, or every man in general.

    I do agree with you that queer people of color really need to address the homophobia in their own communities – that kind of change can’t be imposed, but rather has to come from within. The Jewish LGBT community has made it a priority over the last 30 years or so to address homophobia and gender inequality within the Jewish community at large and has made great strides (gradual, slow, but great), though we still have a way to go (Orthodox Union got a NASTY letter from me after their endorsement came out). That change would never have happened if Christian LGBT people had come to us and said, “Hey, Jews, how about some understanding for gay people?” That might have gotten understanding from Jews for other groups of queer people – but not for Jewish ones. There’s this perception in a lot of communities that queerness is a “white problem” or a “white issue,” and that allows them to ignore the queer people in their own communities – in some cases, even if they aren’t entirely anti-gay on principle. It’s the whole “Out there, whatever – but not in my house!” thing.

    That’s why the change has to come from within.

    But you can be a part of the broader movement by forming coalitions, rather than just abandoning the broader movement altogether on the assumption that it is entirely composed of white gay men – because although it may not seem like it, white gay men are NOT the only people fighting for marriage equality. Nowhere near it. (Ironically, the wealthier you are, the better off you are staying *unmarried* at least in terms of taxation). It may not feel like it, but we’re all in this fight together, especially considering that many of the protections that marriage affords are already available to wealthier people through the careful contractual work of lawyers with ridiculous hourly rates, or through individual health insurance plans that are costly, but affordable for those with money. Marriage provides these things – and more – for those of us who can’t afford all the fancy legal maneuvering. But I digress.

    There are plenty of organizations that do work within their own ethnic, racial, religious, political, etc. communities, but have a place at the table when the broader LGBT community comes together to fight something that is targeted at us. There are Latino, Jewish, and Asian/Pacific Islander orgs, and others, many more than I can list, that do their outreach work in their own communities to raise awareness of the LGBT people within those communities, and provide services for the folks who need them, particularly people who are HIV+ – but these same groups show up when the call goes out for help and collaboration on a broader scale – because that table belongs to all of us. Even something as simple as showing a presence at Pride and other major events – I’ll tell ya… Bienestar always has THE LARGEST group of people marching in the Weho Pride parade. It’s freakin’ incredible. I know the pride parade is something little and petty in the long run, but in a march that has largely become a vehicle for corporate sponsorship, it is pretty freaking awesome to see Bienestar stretch out for blocks and blocks.

    I don’t know if there is an equivalent group with the black community – I know there are individual leaders, but are there major organizations of queer black folks doing outreach and awareness-raising in the black community for LGBT issues and the HIV crisis? It seems like there must be; I just don’t know about them. Maybe you can tell me?

    I *know* there are people working toward gender equality – with this new administration I’m hoping to see the passage of ENDA, which should help a great deal for all of us. I know a lot of progressive folks of all races and ethnicities, queer and straight, who are working on gang violence, children’s rights/advocacy, disability services, police issues, and conditions within prisons.

    But where are the orgs and leaders raising awareness of homophobia and the way that anti-gay attitudes affect and exacerbate the above problems, in addition to the family inequalities imposed by lack of marriage rights? And what about the ways in which marriage equality and family stability *in general* could affect any of those problems, regardless of sexual orientation? Do you think these are messages that would go anywhere if they came from outside?

    In the end… I just encourage you to look around at these protests – not at the pictures that the media are posting of them, but at the actual people who are showing up. You’ll see that this movement belongs to all of us, even if we have work to do in our own communities.

  • shira

    btw Eric, just a question – how come you view these things as mutually exclusive? What I mean is, why couldn’t black queer people be more visible in the black community and raise awareness even if the white gay men you’re talking about did give a damn? Why does it have to be one or the other? Even if the gay community was perfectly inclusive and didn’t have an ounce of racial conflict anywhere, wouldn’t there still be a need for black queer people to be out in the black community and stand up and be counted *there* too?

  • Eric

    Hmmmmm, I think I may be in moderation. I hope so, it was a long post that I don’t want to write again. 🙂

  • Eric

    Shira,

    If you want me to be completely honest, I don’t feel a familial connection with gay white men. When I’m around gay white men, I don’t feel we have anything in common and the fact that we are both gay is meaningless. White gay men have a long history of racial hostility( or sexual objectivity) toward people who look like me, so finding that sort of connection is very difficult. I would like to connect, but I feel that I’m incapable of doing so.

    White gays have shown themselves to be terribly inept and grossly disinterested when it comes to outreach into communities of color. I think many white gays are completely oblivious to the fact that, even before these recent outbursts, white gays have been largely perceived by African Americans in general(let alone black gays), as being racially hostile toward our community. Recent events have only validated those beliefs.

    As a result, African Americans have never viewed white gays as a fellow minority group, but instead glaring examples of white privilege. White gays have single-handedly set their movement back years within the African American community in only a two week period. I don’t believe that African American support was truly anywhere near 70 percent as it’s been widely reported, several polls before the election showed African American support below 50 percent. But after this charade, it might actually grow to 70 percent if not 90 percent the next time.

    So no, the “white gay mafia” would have little affect within the African American community at this point. It’s up to us, black sgl individuals to be the change we seek. We don’t have the luxury of making “marriage” our primary issue. It’s a nice thought. But had Prop 8 failed and I was granted the right to marry my knight in shining armor, I’d still be black. I’d still have to deal with all the complex societal issues that come along with being black, being allowed to marry doesn’t erase my blackness. While Biff and Scooter have the luxury of making “marriage” the most vital issue in their lives and are willing to move heaven and earth in order to hang that certificate on their wall, Tyrone and Chauncey aren’t afforded that luxury. And yes, I’m aware that those who would benefit most would be lesbian couples of color, many who are raising children. However, you wouldn’t know it by the way the gay community chooses to advertise their cause. So clearly they’re viewed as irrelevant.

    I’m not saying that black gays should only focus on the issues that directly affect our community simply because white gays don’t care. I’m not even saying that marriage equality shouldn’t be among those issues. I’m saying that we need to put our issues first period, whether white gays care or not. The resources and manpower that black gays are putting into organizations( and according to you street protest) that deem them undesirable, would be better utilized by our own organizations that actually do have our best interest at heart. Continuing to delude ourselves by pretending that we are apart of this movement is proving detrimental to our own causes. Why? Well, there aren’t enough of us to go around. It is as simple as that.

    Many white gays seem to come to the conclusion that black gays have the luxury of being gay first black second, which they feel gives them the right to use the N-word or speak disparagingly about black people in general and not offend us.

    Society will always see us as black first, we will always be treated as black first, therefore, black issues are of the up most importance to us. And when you speak disparagingly about black people, not only are you speaking negatively about us, you are talking about our mothers, our fathers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc… So yes, we are offended.

    We are a double and in many cases triple minority which brings with it complex issues that white gays don’t understand nor do they care to understand. So why should we bother? We need to put those resources and manpower where they’ll be most effective, and that is not with mainstream (read white) gay organizations. I know that I’ll be accused of generalizing once again. But to that I say, white gays had no problem taking the responses of less than 230 black people who participated an exit poll and used their responses to generalize the entire black race.

    I mean in that last 2 weeks I’ve read well over 230 post on various blogs posted by white gays and their allies calling black people every kind of nigger you can think of along with a multitude of other racial insults. And I think my sample is far more random the CNN’s exit poll, so if the CNN poll is a fact, my sampling is even more so. Another thing I wanted to point out is, even if the exit poll is correct, if white gays think they’re going to shame and intimidate black people into supporting their cause. Then they prove once again that they haven’t a clue about black people, because it’s not going to happen. You’re making it far worse than you can imagine, and you’re losing black allies(gay and straight) in the process. I have dozens of black friends gay and straight, who say the next time this goes to ballot they won’t be voting at all. But I can assure that the ones who oppose gay marriage will.

    Continued below*

  • Eric

    I think it’s the links that send my posts to moderation, so I’ll remove them.

    As far as organizations that do community outreach and address issues like homophobia and HIV issues, there are a number, many being pride organizations. The problem with many is funding and manpower, which makes it difficult to reach into as many communities as they would like.

    Us Helping Us

    National Black Justice Coalition

    Gay Men of African Descent

    ITLA

    Zuna Institute

    Unity Fellowship Church Movement

    The Audre Lorde Project

    People of Color in Crisis

    There are more but these are the ones that came immediately to mind. Black gays are better off going where they are wanted and mostly importantly, needed.

    I don’t know if you’re black, white or whatever else( I’m assuming Jewish). But based on what you’ve written here, if more people thought like you, then gay community would be much better off. Unfortunately, you’re in the minority.

  • Eric

    After reading my post, I realized that I went on a rambling rampage and didn’t quite make my point clear. What I’m saying is, the black gay community being associated with the white gay community has done nothing other than hurt us within our own community. Gayness( and I think you touched on this) is largely associated with privileged , white, Starbuck latte drinking yuppies. Now more than ever, gayness is associated with anti-black rhetoric and racism. These perceptions hurt black gays more than anyone else. Blacks are not going to be supportive of racist, or their enablers.

    Therefore, I feel that in order to combat these perceptions, black gays need to separate ourselves from the overall movement and establish our own movement within our communities that speak to issues that affect our communities specifically which include gay rights.
    Otherwise we will get nowhere.

  • Black Sunshine

    Eric brotha , you sure as hell can write. And as a brotha, I’m not suprised that you can, nor am i suprised that a black man is qualified to be president.
    I wish you were not gay, but I can wish in one hand and piss in another ( standing up..).
    The reason that I found this website was because I was responding to jasmynne’s piss-moanfest / sellout of that brotha that had anti-gay lyrics, and was tryin to get a gig up in Hollywood proper. Jasmynne threw his ass under the bus with her liitle faggotty friends and look at what the pay-off was; nigger this, nigger that, kill a nigger with a baseball bat rhetoric. Then as you know, it says your e-mail will not be published, but there it is in black and white all over the internet. Not only do I not like her, I trust her even less. Hell i even got kudos for the fact that I called her ass on the shit. (I’m not gay so my eloquence is running out..)
    But if you had talked to her , maybe you could have kept her from transforming from a dyke- fool, into a stupid assed, sell-a-niggas-ass-out- to-your-little-faggoty-friends-fool. If I had the time (which I damn sure will make time) I will go and heckle her anywhere she performs and then we can just ‘ get down ‘
    but as a human being, although I get a tremedous amount of satisfaction by watching this shit blow up in her face like Chinese dynamite,a small bit of me sincerely feels sorry for her, because disillusionment is probably the understatement of her gay-assed year, but that’s what you get.When I was younger, i worked at a swank-assed hotel in we-ho, and there were a ton of gays that I worked with and , boy did I catch hell. I thought it was because I was fuckin’ girls, and had a body these motherfuckers would never have unless they went somewhere and paid for it. Made my life hell. And now to come to find out tthat these punk assed ho’s are/were racists? Talk about young and stupid. I would have sincerely k***** one of these bitches had I known! But I learned that vengeance is not mine and they ALL died from AIDS. Karma’s a STRAIGHT bitch.
    I’m rollin’ now so let me rip a new asshole FOR YOU NIGGER- HATERS..
    You’ll never change my mind you queer assed motherfuckers. Can you imagine the kinds of things that a black man was subject to by some faggot during the era of slavery? Pretty goddamn evident when you see how many white folks are into bondage, and the homo men are really more so. To me ( at the risk of making myself sound even more ignorant… to you ) this gay thing isn’t about love, it SEEMS to be about power. not love.
    I have read that ya’ll think that niggers aRe stupid because we disagree witj you. Well whites have thought this for many years, but we couldn’t have survived this long in the bitch by being stupid. Ya’ll just made a claasic mistake, the same one that John McCain made… he underestimated “that’ brotha and thought Hillary would win. One of the main things that white people do is to say that blacks are stupid; stupid grammar, stupid dances stupid, basketball,and every single time we break it off in your ass. The only stupid thing we do is not copyright the shit that you pay big bucks to mangle and emulate, but if we had that much goddamn money we’d be in another concentration camp.
    Wow man, to find out that part of the dirty looks ya’ll give us really frees up the right to kick some major ass.
    So any way my pretty little friends, It IS deer season and therefore now is a time to kill…and this is a job for men with steely knives and oily guns:unlike humans they won’t kill themselves, or commit homesexual acts.
    p.s. I can’t stand mormons either but a broken clock is right twice a day…

  • Black Sunshine

    Eric brotha , you sure as hell can write. And as a brotha, I’m not suprised that you can, nor am i suprised that a black man is qualified to be president.
    I wish you were not gay, but I can wish in one hand and piss in another ( standing up..).
    The reason that I found this website was because I was responding to jasmynne’s piss-moanfest / sellout of that brotha that had anti-gay lyrics, and was tryin to get a gig up in Hollywood proper. Jasmynne threw his ass under the bus with her liitle faggotty friends and look at what the pay-off was; nigger this, nigger that, kill a nigger with a baseball bat rhetoric. Then as you know, it says your e-mail will not be published, but there it is in black and white all over the internet. Not only do I not like her, I trust her even less. Hell i even got kudos for the fact that I called her ass on the shit. (I’m not gay so my eloquence is running out..)
    But if you had talked to her , maybe you could have kept her from transforming from a dyke- fool, into a stupid assed, sell-a-niggas-ass-out- to-your-little-faggoty-friends-fool. If I had the time (which I damn sure will make time) I will go and heckle her anywhere she performs and then we can just ‘ get down ‘
    but as a human being, although I get a tremedous amount of satisfaction by watching this shit blow up in her face like Chinese dynamite,a small bit of me sincerely feels sorry for her, because disillusionment is probably the understatement of her gay-assed year, but that’s what you get.When I was younger, i worked at a swank-assed hotel in we-ho, and there were a ton of gays that I worked with and , boy did I catch hell. I thought it was because I was fuckin’ girls, and had a body these motherfuckers would never have unless they went somewhere and paid for it. Made my life hell. And now to come to find out tthat these punk assed ho’s are/were racists? Talk about young and stupid. I would have sincerely k***** one of these bitches had I known! But I learned that vengeance is not mine and they ALL died from AIDS. Karma’s a STRAIGHT bitch.
    I’m rollin’ now so let me rip a new asshole FOR YOU NIGGER- HATERS..
    You’ll never change my mind you queer assed motherfuckers. Can you imagine the kinds of things that a black man was subject to by some faggot during the era of slavery? Pretty goddamn evident when you see how many white folks are into bondage, and the homo men are really more so. To me ( at the risk of making myself sound even more ignorant… to you ) this gay thing isn’t about love, it SEEMS to be about power. not love.
    I have read that ya’ll think that niggers aRe stupid because we disagree witj you. Well whites have thought this for many years, but we couldn’t have survived this long in the bitch by being stupid. Ya’ll just made a claasic mistake, the same one that John McCain made… he underestimated “that’ brotha and thought Hillary would win. One of the main things that white people do is to say that blacks are stupid; stupid grammar, stupid dances stupid, basketball,and every single time we break it off in your ass. The only stupid thing we do is not copyright the shit that you pay big bucks to mangle and emulate, but if we had that much goddamn money we’d be in another concentration camp.
    Wow man, to find out that part of the dirty looks ya’ll give us really frees up the right to kick some major ass.
    So any way my pretty little friends, It IS deer season and therefore now is a time to kill…and this is a job for men with steely knives and oily guns:unlike humans they won’t kill themselves, or commit homesexual acts.
    p.s. I can’t stand mormons either but a broken clock is right twice a day…preach Eric because you are so right yet sadly, so, so, wrong

  • Eric

    Black Sunshine,

    I didn’t pay much attention to grammatical rules when I wrote much of the above, I was just writing freely and from the heart. However, I sincerely appreciate the compliment.
    As far as my sexuality, I’m gay and I’d have it no other way. We don’t have to see eye to eye with regard to that particular issue and I’m totally fine with that, we can agree to disagree.

    But do know that my sexual preference is in no way about power. We feel, seek and desire love just as you do and we’d like the opportunity to express our love for our partners in the same ways that you do. You may not like or understand our sexual identity, but at the end of the day, we are human beings who desire the same things out life that you do, you feel me?

    And please don’t take these recent displays on behalf of white gays to be at all representive of black gays. We do not condone this behavior in anyway shape or form. We are quite aware that we are black first, and are just as outraged, offended and repulsed by these racist attacks as anyone in the heterosexual black community. Black is black, and this is a time for unity, no matter what ones sexual identity is, we are still black. It’s time for our community to come together and work toward a mutal understanding. Being divided does nothing but hurt us.

    As far as your issue with Jasmine, hey, well we all make mistakes right? I’m not exactly sure what the situation is or was, but we all live and learn. I appreciate the fact that Jasmine has spoken up for people like me when no one else would, so I can’t fault her too much. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts Black Sunshine, I truly do.

  • patty

    I am a straight black female. Had I been in CA I would have voted no on PROP 8 for the simple reason that people should have the right to marry who they will for what ever reason. I do not care.

    What disappoints me however is that the gay community is shock at the passing of this measure. What gave them the impression they would win a very poorly fought battle. There was no effort to explain the proposition to people. It also seem strange that they view any support of the measure by any of the conservatives based on hatred of them. Many of these people that vote yes on this measure is following religious teachings that have been passed down for hundreds of years and they expect that to change now? Have white gays forgotten what christianity teaches? There are people that really believe the intertupation of the bible and that will not change with out some POSITIVE engagment and education on the part of the gay community.

    I am not a christian but grew up as one and I frankly get tired of many gays that I have seen posting behaving as though they are so important that all black churches do is attach them

  • Black Sunshine

    :::woke up pissed off;;;
    Still in shock over this revelation post revelation about the feelings of gays towards blacks.Ya know, I’ve never harmed a hair on a gay persons daintily coifed little head, but so help me God, all bets are off now. I FUCKING CANNOT BELIEVE THIS SHIT! i talked to my uncle and he told me to wake up!
    If you look at some of the headlines, even though we have a black president blacks are STILL getting fucked with for the color of our skin. The funny thing is, much like Eric I grew up in a predominantly white neighbhorhood and, had a white stepmother that I love very very, much. although I personally have no animosity towards any white person exept those that have ill designs toward me.But this is an eye-opener. I’ve been sexually harassed by gays( the gay guy that got sexually harassed by the other gay guy was smarter than me. I threatened , he sued. What a fool I was. I can’t say how much I’m really in shock, that in addition to sexual discrimination, there was racial discrimination going on? whooooooooooo buddy! and when I lived in Weho on fountain just inside of LaBrea, that’s the look I was getting? Lord have mercy. eric, the reason I percieve it to be about power, is that most men want to be the dominat one in any sexual relationship they are in. those that are not,seem a little strange. Thats ust the way it is, and even women seem to get inline for that. In prison,dudes will fight to the death over getting fucked in the ass. IN THE ASS! but ya’all must have to make a consciious decision about that. you know, the subtle things that men and women do.
    Homosexuality is not a civil right fellas, it is an act. Marrige is between a man and a woman. Just because I get a whole lot of really good pussy, is not a civil right.marrige obviously was not have been invented by gays because if so, we would not be having this issue. And since straight people invented it,I think we would know. Who invented the term ‘husband’, who invented the term ‘wife’ and why are there two different words for for people that get married. Because they are different people.
    Now about sex and our society in general.
    First off, srraight or not I reall don’t want to hear about your sexual practices wther you are straight or gay. everybody knows you have a dick and a pussy, and what you are supposed to do with it. i don’t need you to tell me about your tuff, nor do I need you to attempt to give me a visual. really. Tv is way way oversexed and studies have recently shown that teens that watch a lot of shows with sexual content are more likely to end up with a child( both sexes end up with a child whether they take care of the child or not) and everyone is suprised! taht is not by accident it’s by design in my opinion to break down a family. whether they realize they have a family or not.
    These days everybody seems to want to put their business in the steet. I don’t want to know! heteros are more guilty of this by sheer nuumbers. On network tv, ‘Two and a Half Men’ seems to be the worst. What the fuck is freaky assed disease addled charlie Sheen even in the same room as a child is beyond me. I’m highly critical of him. Gross to the max! But yet we have cum jokes on tv during prime time.
    I watched ‘Will and Grace’ here post election and have seen NO black people on the show, and as i find it gross to the max as well, I wondered wher they would even fit in. But with all of the meesed up crap like that on tv, I’ve never EVER heard a gay person call stright people on just these two things.
    i don’t have all the answeres but, in my opinion, the reaction of the gay people over ‘8’towards blacks was the biggest tactical blunder you could have ever made.
    And guys just remember “Drugs not Hugs”
    p.s. the no. 2 guy in Al-Quaeda recently called our new president a “House Nigger”; goes to show whom you guys bunch yourselves with. If anything ever happened to Barack because of the color of his skin your lives won’t be worth the doilies on your perfect dining room tables in the Weho apartments you do not own. think about that…

  • Black Sunshine

    :::woke up pissed off:::
    Still in shock over this revelation post election about the feelings of gays towards blacks.Ya know, I’ve never harmed a hair on a gay persons daintily coiffed little head, but so help me God, all bets are off now. I FUCKING CANNOT BELIEVE THIS SHIT! i talked to my uncle and he told me to wake up!
    If you look at some of the headlines, even though we have a black president, blacks are STILL getting fucked with for the color of our skin. The funny thing is, much like Eric I grew up in a predominantly white neighbhorhood and, had a white stepmother that I love very very, much. although I personally have no animosity towards any white person except those that have ill designs toward me.But this is an eye-opener. I’ve been sexually harassed by gays( the gay guy that got sexually harassed by the other gay guy was smarter than me. I threatened , he sued. What a fool I was. I can’t say how much I’m really in shock, that in addition to sexual discrimination, there was racial discrimination going on? whooooooooooo buddy! and when I lived in Weho on fountain just inside of LaBrea, that’s the look I was getting? Lord have mercy. Eric, the reason I percieve it to be about power, is that most men want to be the dominant one in any sexual relationship they are in. Those that are not,seem a little strange. Thats just the way it is, and even women seem to get inline for that. In prison,dudes will fight to the death over getting fucked in the ass. IN THE ASS! but ya’all must have to make a consciious decision about that. you know, the subtle things that men and women do.
    Homosexuality is not a civil right fellas, it is an act. Marrige is between a man and a woman. Just because I get a whole lot of really good pussy, is not a civil right. Marriage obviously was not have been invented by gays because if so, we would not be having this issue. And since straight people invented it,I think we would know. Who invented the term ‘husband’, who invented the term ‘wife’ and why are there two different words for for people that get married? Because they are different sexes of people.
    Now about sex and our society in general.
    First off, srraight or not I really don’t want to hear about your sexual practices wther you are straight or gay. Everybody knows you have a dick and a pussy, and what you are supposed to do with it. i don’t need you to tell me about your stuff, nor do I need you to attempt to give me a visual. Really. Tv is way way oversexed and studies have recently shown that teens that watch a lot of shows with sexual content are more likely to end up with a child( both sexes end up with a child whether they take care of the child or not) and everyone is suprised! taht is not by accident it’s by design in my opinion to break down a family. whether they realize they have a family or not.
    These days everybody seems to want to put their business in the steet. I don’t want to know! heteros are more guilty of this by sheer nuumbers. On network tv, ‘Two and a Half Men’ seems to be the worst. What the fuck is freaky assed disease addled Charlie Sheen even in the same room as a child is beyond me. I’m highly critical of him. Gross to the max! But yet we have cum jokes on tv during prime time.
    I watched ‘Will and Grace’ here post election and have seen NO black people on the show, and as i find it gross to the max as well, I wondered wher they would even fit in. But with all of the meesed up crap like that on tv, I’ve never EVER heard a gay person call staright people on just these two things.
    i don’t have all the answeres but, in my opinion, the reaction of the gay people over ‘8’towards blacks was the biggest tactical blunder you could have ever made.
    And guys just remember “Drugs not Hugs”
    p.s. the no. 2 guy in Al-Quaeda recently called our new president a “House Nigger”; goes to show whom you guys bunch yourselves with. If anything ever happened to Barack because of the color of his skin your lives won’t be worth the doilies on your perfect dining room tables in the Weho apartments you do not own. think about that…

  • Black Sunshine

    White extremists lash out over election of first black president
    The Ku Klux Klan is emerging from decades of disorganization and obscurity, and the turnaround is acutely evident — more than 200 hate-related incidents have been reported since the Nov. 4 election.
    By Howard Witt
    November 23, 2008
    Reporting from Bogalusa, La. — Barely three weeks since America elected its first black president, noose hangings, racist graffiti and death threats have struck dozens of towns across the country.

    More than 200 such incidents — including cross burnings, assassination betting pools and effigies of President-elect Barack Obama — have been reported, according to law enforcement authorities and the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups.

    …anybody here involved in this?

  • Blah

    Who really cares? Fucking crackers.. who’s surprised.

  • Shira

    Eric, sorry for taking so long to respond – it’s that time of the semester 🙁 Honestly, I think you’re right to some extent – even within a minority group, a majority *overall* (not accounting for individual differences) will always be concerned with its own rights first and foremost. Minority groups do need to focus inward in order to address their own issues and needs, because if they don’t, nobody will. For me though the most important thing is that even while we do that, we recognize that not all white gay men are the same (remember that much of this obnoxiousness comes from people’s socio-economic class as much as their race, if not more), and not all white lesbians are all the same. Everybody is marginalized in their own way. But I do think it’s better to let your allies come to you rather than neglect your community in the hopes of finding allies. And in the end, I think coalition-building will always, always be more effective than either unifying in a single group or completely splintering into separate and insular groups.

    Black Sunshine… there is so much to say, but I’ll go for the obvious and most petty one to avoid a long and drawn out argument: Watching “Will & Grace” to get a sense of what white gay people are like is like watching “Desperate Housewives” to get a sense of what women are like, or “The OC” or “Married with Children” to get a sense of what white people are like in general. These shows cater to a very specific segment of the population – well-to-do, middle to upper-middle class, not particularly politically or intellectually engaged. These are not shows that represent all or even most of the populations they depict. But maybe since you used to work in West Hollywood, you think they do, since West Hollywood is so homogeneous. Just know that it is not representative of the entire LA queer community, nor the entire white LA queer community, nor the entire white LA queer male community. Don’t assume that just because somebody seems white and gay, that means they’re racist (or gay, or white, for that matter :-P)

  • Yawn

    What I don’t get is black people who don’t get it. White people are white people. End of story.

  • Marisela

    To me the whole concept of gay marriage is bullshit. I’m a queer of color and I voted against gay marriage because I’m a radical. I’m against all marriage. I want to destroy the current racist, misogynist, capitalist beast and replace it with something more human, not be included in it. I may live below the poverty line but I will never sell out the way the mainstream white gays have. As a queer or color, Gay marriage is NOT in my best interest. Gay marriage is about extending FULL WHITE PRIVILEGE to all WHITE MALES. Once white gay males can marry, evey white male will be equal, at the top, steppin on the backs of people of color. That’s all gay marriage is about. Helping the white boys up to the top. Anyone who thinks that once white males have full white privilege they’ll work for social justice for the rest of us is a fool! Gay marriage is a white supremacist, elitist, middle class issue. It doesn’t have anything to do with the struggle for social justice and it’s NOT in my interest to care about how WHITEY feels about my lack of support for helping him to climb the top of a sick, racist hierarchy. I’m rolling on the floor laughing my ass off that the White boys and their apologists feel “betrayed.” The only thing that got betrayed here was the big secret that WHITE gays will always be WHITE first and they’ll always to cowardly to confront their whiteness. I’m glad they finally showed their “true colors” (or lack of colors). Now maybe queers of color will be able to speak out against how racist the white qeers are and confront those who think they have a right to represent all of us queers with their narrow co-opted conservative agenda. I’m not even surprised that it had to come to the N-bomb before some people finally woke up and smelled the whiteness.